CrazyGuy: ...the Jews like other races took gods and stories from others and made them their own. Its also become clear that many of the books were written later then stated, like Daniel probably written about a hundred years before Christ and some of it maybe even after. But what I don't get is the prophecies. Many of the book were written after the fact but were written as if they had prophesied an event so why? Why would a scribe write something about something that had already taken place but write it as though it was going to in the future? Is there any evidence of other groups in the past doing the same thing?
I’m not sure that what you’re saying is true. Isaiah 53 was clearly written before the days of Jesus. The prophecy has been firmly rejected begins just a little before in chapter 52. Christians read chapter 53 and immediately see Jesus Christ; however, the Jews emphatically insist that it’s the nation of Israel, not the Messiah. But if one reads the verses just before chapter 53, the idea that that the “suffering servant” being a nation loses credibility: “Behold, my servant shall deal prudently; he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. As many were astonished at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men.”
In a very old document that’s ancient, but not in the Christian or Jewish canon, the Father speaks to the Messiah and warns him of the suffering he would endure: “...their sins...will bend thee down under a yoke of iron and make thee like a calf whose eyes grow dim with suffering, and will choke thy spirit as with a yoke; because of the sins of these souls thy tongue will cleave to the roof of my mouth. Art thou willing to endure such things?” (Budge, Coptic Martyrdoms (London: British Museum, 1914), 482) According to John A. Tvedtnes, a professor of Ancient Scripture at BYU, “The account may be quite old, for it is also known from a Jewish text, Pesikta Rabbati 36:1, where we read that God “under his throne of glory put away His Messiah until the time of the generation in which he will appear.”
The prophet Zechariah noted that Israel would be restored to the lands of its inheritance in the last days (also prophesied by Isaiah), and this has now happened. These prophets have also prophesied that once the Jews have built their temple, that a powerful regional leader would reign for seven years and bring peace to the region. After three and a half years, this man (called “the beast” by some, or “the antichrist,” or “the man of sin,” the “Assyrian” or, as the Muslims call him, “the Mahdi”) will suddenly stop the sacrifices in the Jewish temple, and begin killing all those who will not worship him. At that point he will defile the temple, placing an image of himself in the holy of holies. For the latter part of his reign, the Jews (and presumably Christians and members of other faiths) who will not renounce their beliefs and follow him will be killed in great numbers. Then each side will receive assistance, the beast receiving it from Satan and the Jews receiving it from God. A “false prophet” will appear and perform wonderful miracles. But instead of seeking power for himself, he will publicly defer to the beast. The Jews will receive relief in the form of two prophets (Rev. 11), who will have all the powers of the ancient prophets Moses and Elijah. At the end of his reign, he will finally succeed in killing these two prophets, who tormented him and kept him from victory. But after three days of celebration, these prophets, who had been left dead in the streets as a form of humiliation, suddenly stand on their feet and, before the beast, will ascend into heaven.
All of these things have been prophesied, but many have not yet happened. But if one reads the prophecies carefully, one can see that the exact nations mentioned by the prophets are all Muslim nations, and that they all surround Israel.
My point is that who could have imagined the Jews reestablishing their nation in the face of fierce opposition? And even when they became a state, the very nations the prophets wrote about have sworn Israel’s destruction. Mohammed, himself, said that the day of resurrection would not come until the Muslims vanquished Jerusalem and killed the Jews. Specifically, he said, “The Hour [of Resurrection] will not come until you fight the Jews. The Jew will hide behind stones or trees. Then the stones or trees will call: ‘Oh Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’” And recently, a Muslim speaker introducing the mufti, said, “Our war with the descendants of the apes and pigs is a war of religion and faith.”
So prophecy isn’t something that’s written in the wake of an event or events. The Old Testament prophets said that the Jews would be scattered to the four corners of the earth, and it happened. And they said the Jews would return to form their own nation, and they have. John, in Revelation 11, was given a rod and told to measure the temple. At the time, the temple had been burned to the ground by the Romans. And Malachi spoke of the Jews offering sacrifices in the last days. Ezekiel even provided the Jews with the directions on how to build it.
Many prophecies have been shown to predate events, and critics have striven to prove this for years. Even the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses have failed to recognize these events as being the work of God. Why? Because at the time they committed themselves to how the prophecies would be fulfilled, Israel had not become a state. The 1968 war had not taken place, nor did those who formed Adventist doctrine understand Christian and Muslim eschatology.
Even so prophecy is unfolding in the here and now. In my own view, no one could have foreseen it except they were of God. As for other traditions that seem older than those of the Bible, the age of documents and traditions cannot offer conclusive evidence that they preceded the records of Moses and other prophets. Until we can get the original source material, scholars can only speculate whose traditions came first. It's entirely possible that the Babylonians got their legends from the Hebrews. Accounts of the flood, for example, have been found in Greek mythology, Eastern traditions, throughout Asia and Africa, and even from the peoples of North and South America. Finding the oldest accounts are helpful for tracking the path of the traditions, but as of yet, they do not prove where they came from. Once Noah and his family left the ark, for example, accounts and traditions of that voyage were eventually had by all people.
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